If you are thinking about getting a Tuxedo, I suggest to get something else. I got one because they promised fwupd support, upstreamed drivers and maybe coreboot support. None of that is working even years afterwards. People from the kernel got so fed up with them, they considered blacklisting them [1]. That seemed like a wakeup call as they now at least started with upstreaming drivers.
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application. It's so bad, volunteers created an alternative. Even they are getting tired of Tuxedo though [2]
The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200€+ to repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are available and no instructions.
I hope they improve, but for now I'm disillusioned and would not buy it again.
The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated, instead of working on a generic solution.
That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different enough that the software is customised for each one.
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application.
WTF. I thought Android being Java was already going too far, but they seem to have gone to a whole new level of insanity.
mzur 4 hours ago [-]
I'm a happy user of my second Tuxedo laptop after using the first for over 7 years, repairing several parts. I found their support very responsive and spare parts affordable. Your points are valid though. If you don't like their custom stuff, the device also works fine with a stock Linux install (Ubuntu in my case).
ndiddy 2 hours ago [-]
Frankly it's bizarre that a Linux focused vendor thinks it's better to keep their device drivers outside of the kernel. Why would I buy a rebadged Clevo laptop from Tuxedo where I'm stuck either running their special Tuxedo distro or fiddling around with compiling kernel modules on other distros, when I could buy a much better laptop for the same price from a vendor who doesn't even advertise Linux support and get full out of the box hardware support on any distro I choose?
bfrog 3 hours ago [-]
So Qualcomm continues its Qualcomm behavior.
pacifika 5 hours ago [-]
The first link does not mention blacklisting, just resolving a license compatibility issue.
pentamassiv 5 hours ago [-]
"The patches check for the gxtp7380, ite_8291, ite_8291_lb, ite_8297, ite_829x, stk8321, tuxedo_compatibility_check, tuxedo_io, tuxedo_nb02_nvidia_power_ctrl, tuxedo_nb04_keyboard, tuxedo_nb04_wmi_ab, tuxedo_nb04_wmi_bs, tuxedo_nb04_sensors, tuxedo_nb04_power_profiles, tuxedo_nb04_kbd_backlight, tuxedo_nb05_keyboard, tuxedo_nb05_kbd_backlight, tuxedo_nb05_power_profiles, tuxedo_nb05_ec, tuxedo_nb05_sensors, tuxedo_nb05_fan_control, tuxi_acpi, tuxedo_tuxi_fan_control, clevo_wmi, tuxedo_keyboard, clevo_acpi, and uniwill_wmi kernel modules and will taint if they are present."
That's not what I would describe as "resolving a license compatibility issue"
rhaps0dy 39 minutes ago [-]
I would describe it as exactly "resolving a license compatibility issue". Taint in linux kernel refers to marking this kernel as not supported, which often just means not purely GPLv2 compatible anymore. Proprietary AMD and nVidia drivers also cause taints. https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/118117/251582
TheJCDenton 7 hours ago [-]
Very informative, thank you. I was about to buy one of their products but this made me pause.
What you think would be the alternative in Europe ?
mariusor 7 hours ago [-]
Basically the same things happened to my tuxedo also. With the addition of having to change batteries once a year, because it would drop to half it's factory charge, which wasn't really sufficient. I also gave up on them when they wanted so much money for a screen change (which died after about 3-4 years).
I've replaced it with the new framework 13 inch, which so far works well, but I've only had it for 4-5 months. ( well, but not perfect, because the new AMD AI CPU has issues with suspend on linux)
wyldfire 2 hours ago [-]
> issues with suspend on linux
Oh? I'd seriously considered buying the 13 w/this AMD CPU and I guess I naively thought it would be ideal. What sort of problems with suspend are you seeing?
oDot 2 hours ago [-]
I have a Zephyrus G16 with a 370 and can confirm it would fail to sleep on Linux 6.12.
Upgraded to 6.15 and sleep seems to work well now.
I use NixOS
mariusor 2 hours ago [-]
I haven't spent time investigating if my specific setup is the problem, or an actual bug in the drivers, but after I resume from suspend, the btrfs root fs is in a read-only state.
The only solution is to reboot/shutdown, but it takes a long time and there are some scary fs checks running. Luckily no lost data so far. Currently I'm just shutting down the machine every time because it the boot times are quite fast.
danieldk 1 hours ago [-]
I have a T14 Gen 5 AMD. No issues with suspend/resume at all. NixOS, kernel 6.12. The Ryzen AI APUs are fairly new, so it may take a few months for things to settle.
ekianjo 3 hours ago [-]
at least with framework you know exactly how much the replacement parts will cost ahead of time.
lhl 1 hours ago [-]
Slimbook (Spanish OEM) basically sells the same ODM designs as Tuxedo and is an option. They have a few cobranded (KDE etc) versions that contribute to the development teams.
Otherwise at this point I believe the Framework laptops have pretty solid Linux support and is a good option if you're ok w/ so-so battery life.
kfl 6 hours ago [-]
There is StarLab https://starlabs.systems although they don’t make ARM laptops if that’s what you are asking for.
abound 2 hours ago [-]
While StarLabs has shipped products before, I'd be careful with them. That StarFighter laptop was supposed to ship years ago, and I don't think any have been delivered yet. Here's a Reddit thread [1] from three years ago saying delivery would be in a few months.
Don’t bother with these. In my eyes the gold standard for Linux laptops is Framework or Lenovo.
homebrewer 5 hours ago [-]
https://entroware.com from the UK gets mentioned here and there, but I think they don't do any software development at all, and only repackage OEM laptops.
pentamassiv 7 hours ago [-]
Unfortunately I don't know about a good alternative from Europe. I'd probably get a Framework if my device stops working. They seem to work hard at upstreaming things and use Linux standards. They also connected with the GNOME foundation, so there might be some collaboration in the future
MarcusE1W 5 hours ago [-]
I think it's great that a company tries to support ARM Linux and brings what looks to me like a Linux first ARM Laptop.
timeon 7 hours ago [-]
> If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application.
That is unfortunate. I hoped they were more like System76.
juliangmp 7 hours ago [-]
Having to use their specific drivers is a bit annoying, but I honestly prefer that over drivers that dont work or dont exist at all.
I really hope they can bring their stuff upstream at one point, but I can't deny that using their laptops hasn't been good experiences.
avoid_tuxedo 4 hours ago [-]
Seconded. Stay away from Tuxedo. You get better hardware support with many other vendors.
tom89999 6 hours ago [-]
There are parts in the industry that are not meant for end users.
I service copiers and printers.
The fixing unit is not meant to be installed by a handyman, thats why you dont get to buy it.
You can cook yourself, it works with 230V....
Toner and drum unit are sold to customers.
simonjgreen 6 hours ago [-]
Respectfully, nothing about that applies to a laptop. This has been well proven over the years, that with good forethought and making parts available laptops can be highly repairable.
tom89999 1 hours ago [-]
The display unit is nothing an enduser should replace. Does every user know how to handle the delicate display and how to carefully install the LVDS cable?
In most modern cars you cant replace the windscreen with cameras, heating wires in your backyard without the calibration software.
You can try it, but you will fail.
bombela 49 minutes ago [-]
So what you are saying, is that it is all designed to be impossible to fix without special equipment and exquisite motor skills?
bpfrh 2 hours ago [-]
Screw in a light bulb and you work with 230V and we still allow people to screw in their own light bulbs
tom89999 59 minutes ago [-]
What are the 5 safety guidelines?
theodric 6 hours ago [-]
230VAC mains electrical fittings are openly sold in DIY shops in every country in the European Union without mass-cookings occurring as a result. This reeks of utterly unearned elitism.
danieldk 1 hours ago [-]
Yep. I think pretty much every youngster gets some basic education (besides getting years of physics in high-school): disarm the group/fuse, double check with a power tester, make sure you are not causing any shorts. I don't know anyone who calls an electrician for replacing a light fitting, a power outlet, or light switches.
Besides that some European countries have required for decades that new houses/apartment have central residual-current circuit breakers for the whole house (unlike the US where as far as I understand they are only required in certain areas and are often in the socket and not centralized).
tom89999 1 hours ago [-]
I do that work almost every day. What if the untalented handyman crunches a live cable and the metallic frame is on fire?
You can repair how and what you want, its your house and children.
lotsofpulp 59 minutes ago [-]
>You can repair how and what you want, its your house and children.
They cannot.
>The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200€+ to repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are available and no instructions.
margalabargala 1 hours ago [-]
"230VAC is dangerous, therefore it makes sense you cannot purchase a 12VDC laptop screen to install yourself"
tom89999 1 hours ago [-]
Ever heard of the old displays with an inverter that produced around 700V?
Can zap grandpa into the coffin...
THats why they did not sell it to customers.
bombela 45 minutes ago [-]
Everybody obviously works on a powered on laptop, with fully charged capacitors. With those capacitor delivering at leat 100mA to your heart for good measure.
It's like when people work on their car, they do it at highway speed, using a nacelle precariously balanced under the car, with the front wheels propped up on dollies for access.
margalabargala 42 minutes ago [-]
And I'm sure that continuing that tradition into the laptop LCD era is similarly due to safety and not profit.
5 hours ago [-]
pjmlp 7 hours ago [-]
Two of the reasons I eventually gave up on Desktop Linux, were virtualization getting good enough for just keep using Windows instead, back in the day with VMware Workstation and Virtual Box, nowadays with WSL (macOS is anyway UNIX enough for me to care otherwise).
And exactly the same experience with OEM vendors that were supposed to be Linux friendly, on my case the whole netbooks effort, where graphics, video decoding and wlan never worked as well on Windows, even though they were supposed to.
Dell XPS also had their issues for something that was supposed to be Canonical certified as running GNU/Linux properly.
It seems Android, ChromeOS and WebOS are the only ones where OEMs actually care to make it work properly, naturally the cloud and IoT vendors with their custom distros as well.
pimeys 7 hours ago [-]
I've been running Linux on my laptop and on my workstation since the 90's. Still using it as my main driver. Fedora Kinoite is my distro of choice, and Lenovo AMD Thinkpad T14s the laptop. Everything works flawless, and it's still pretty fast even though it's two years old already.
And I do not miss at all the Microsoft bullsh*t on tracking and advertising. Or the general sluggishness of Windows.
danieldk 5 hours ago [-]
I used to be quite cynical about these posts. I used Linux as my main desktop from 1994-2007 and switched to Mac then. I would periodically try on laptops Linux again, but there were always things broken in bad ways.
Early this year I bought a ThinkPad T14 Gen 5 AMD. In contrast to when I had a T14 Gen 1 AMD early 2020s, everything just works. All the hardware works, suspend/resume works, all the hardware comes up after a resume, etc.
Lately I have been using my ThinkPad much more than my MacBook Pro. NixOS is a superpower to me and having NixOS on a laptop is living the dream.
bee_rider 4 hours ago [-]
I’ve used it from probably… 2010 or so, to now. I recall some stuff like WiFi being vaguely annoying in the beginning. But, things seemed to get pretty good post 2015.
You were here for the really hard stuff, and missed the beginning of the good times, I think. Unlucky! Oh well. Welcome back!
danieldk 2 hours ago [-]
I did use a Ryzen Linux desktop from ~2018-2020 besides a MacBook, but Apple Silicon was so insanely good when it was introduced that I went back fully back to Mac on the desktop. But Ryzen mobile APUs have been catching up.
I have also used headless Linux machines throughout my Mac vacation :).
With regards to the hard stuff. 1994-2007 was from my 12th to my 25th, basically overlapping with when I was a high school/university student. So, plenty of time and not enough money for a Mac or some commercial UNIX system. That period was also super exciting, especially up till the dotcom crash a lot of people thought that Linux was going to take over the desktop (anyone remember Corel Linux and even WordPerfect on Linux?). Linux did take over, but in different ways than we imagined, the server was kinda expected after the mid-nineties, but Android not.
jbeard4 2 hours ago [-]
> NixOS is a superpower to me
Can you expand on this? Just curious what is the main value-add you are getting from NixOS in particular?
danieldk 1 hours ago [-]
- Fully declarative. I can bring up a system in 5-10 minutes (depending on internet speed) and the system configuration is exactly as any other system.
- Great modules for programs/services in NixOS and home manager. So I typically do not have to figure out what configuration format something uses. Most common options are exposed as module options and for options that are not exposed, it's often possible to write the configuration in Nix (or worst case a string that gets added to the configuration). I can access the documentation of all modules with a simple _man configuration.nix_ or `man home-configuration.nix`.
- I can override arbitrary packages with custom build options, etc. I don't have to maintain separate .spec/rules files or anything. I can just put a somePackage.override/overrideAttrs somewhere in my system configuration and the package customizations are there with my system configuration and always get built with the system.
- Packaging something to hook it up in my system is low-effort. nixpkgs is the largest distribution package set (according to repology). But sometimes something is missing or I want to add some of my own projects as packages, unless it's some insanely bad proprietary application, I can do it in a few minutes.
- Atomic updates/rollbacks.
- Ad-hoc or project-specific development shells (though that is more Nix than NixOS).
I know that the learning curve can be steep, but once you really get Nix and NixOS, it's kinda like being the master of the universe, erm, I mean your systems.
bombela 35 minutes ago [-]
I don't think anybody ever sold nixos that good to me before.
I might try it again. Last time I really did not like that any minute config change would take 15s to apply.
But the biggest issue for me, is that right now I have a good enough solution, that allows for config file update from applications. I have a small git repo, with one shell script, that symlinks config files, and even generates a few. And so backing up the latest config changes from KDE, freecad, etc, is a git add & commit away. I have another shell script to setup the base Ubuntu the way I want. And my data is replicated via syncthing.
nextos 2 hours ago [-]
NixOS gives you the ability to define your system declaratively, upgrade or tweak without fear of breaking anything, and the ability to launch shells with arbitrary and well defined sets of dependencies.
bornfreddy 6 hours ago [-]
Can attest - Thinkpads and Linux go great together. Used for 2 years, then was forced into Windows crap by corporate policy. No, WSL is not the same.
ThatMedicIsASpy 6 hours ago [-]
10+ years of T440s here. Most of the time a Fedora base. Both batteries at 50% health but the only thing that really is noticeable over the years is the missing hardware for todays video codecs.
pentamassiv 5 hours ago [-]
Before the Tuxedo, I used an old Lenovo. I didn't check before if it works well with Linux, but it worked flawlessly. I am so used to devices working well and not having to think much about drivers. That's probably why I am disappointed by Tuxedo. They market themselves to Linux users but until recently they did not emphasize upstreaming and embracing standards.
danieldk 57 minutes ago [-]
What I love about Lenovo besides PSRef and all the maintenance/repair manuals (with part numbers, so that you know what to get if something needs to be replaced), etc. is that they often certify laptops for Linux.
They also seem to really care about supporting Linux. E.g. WWAN modems need proprietrary unlock procedures these days thanks to the FCC [1]. Most vendors would shrug and say 'sorry, we only support Windows', Lenovo has a repo with Linux support for all the modems that ThinkPads support (you can only use supported modems, because the FCC apparently only certifies laptop/modem combinations, not individual modems):
I ran a Dell XPS (not even the Canonical certified version) for a few years at a past job, and everything worked pretty well under Ubuntu. But it's always a matter of which exact hardware combination has mainstream support, and if the version you get doesn't e.g. have a shitty WiFi chip with bad support.
npodbielski 7 hours ago [-]
Yes. This is why I rather check Linux support od chips in a machine that I am planning to buy. Not that much work but you will not get unpleasant surprise when Wi-Fi do not work.
wolvesechoes 4 hours ago [-]
Funny to read replies to your comment. One can be sure that on HN for every single critical comment about Linux viability one gets multiple responses claiming that Linux is perfect and without issues.
Inb4: I have used Linux exclusively from 2019 to 2024. It wasn't that bad but it wasn't flawless. At least once per month I met some issue that took few hours to solve. Currently on Win11, zero problems (yes, I am using pirated LTSC IoT version, how did you know?)
danieldk 54 minutes ago [-]
No system is without issues. We used ThunderBolt docks that worked perfectly with macOS, until one major release they became a hell to use because Apple broke something (which manifested as a display not coming back after resume, requiring several plugs/unplugs).
As everyone knows, Windows has its own fair share of issues. The first is that it is not a Unix :).
bee_rider 4 hours ago [-]
In this case it turns out they got… one comment that was strongly pro-Linux, one that mentioned they didn’t have trouble but only as an aside before going on to discuss Tuxedo, and one that was softly positive but acknowledged the trouble of checking hardware beforehand.
fb03 23 minutes ago [-]
I'm still waiting for the apple laptop killer (a 12h+ laptop with plain Ubuntu) but it's still brittle as fuck. I'm so frustrated by the current state of the mobile computing space. I have to have an Apple locked down device, which I hate, just because I want proper battery life.
A aarch64 Ubuntu vm inside MacOS runs faster and lasts more time than a booted up Ubuntu on arm in these devices. This is how far behind these things are.
and what bums me the most is that it's all about software. The hardware is great, but software on Snapdragon is taking a lot of time to catch up and it screams M$ lobby to me
lbrito 14 minutes ago [-]
Pretty sure there are plenty of traditional x86 Linux laptops that have north of 12h battery life. System76 comes to mind (mandatory "System76 is just a Clevo wrapper" comment).
rr808 3 hours ago [-]
I'm waiting for this. I like low powered laptops as more of a terminal. I dont want the apple ecosystem, but I'm getting really tired of windows, high end chromebooks kinda disappeared, I have Linux servers at home. Do I have to wait much longer?
vinkelhake 29 seconds ago [-]
An alternative that is available right now is to get an M1/M2 MacBook Air and run Asahi Linux on it. The older models are pretty cheap, but still quite fast. There are some missing features, but it runs really well. I've been using it as my home driver for over a year and it's really solid.
WD-42 2 hours ago [-]
I have a think pad I use this way. Super light, battery lasts forever but it’s super low powered. However, I use Tailscale to connect to my beefy desktop at home with ssh/tmux and Zed remote editing. It’s perfect.
ozgrakkurt 3 hours ago [-]
A laptop with a recent ryzen processor and a large battery goes a long way already. It is not as good as my m1 macbook but it is really good
shenki0 8 hours ago [-]
The Microsoft Surface Laptop 7 machines have no touchpad or touchscreen support. Listing them as "supported" requires a creative interpretation of the term.
dvtkrlbs 8 hours ago [-]
They don't say everything works they say kernel works on those laptops.
LtWorf 8 hours ago [-]
I'd say "boots" would be more appropriate.
ekianjo 7 hours ago [-]
between booting and being able to everything except supporting non existent proprietary drivers for touchpad and screen from Microsoft is quite a difference.
thanatos519 5 hours ago [-]
Works for me - those are the first things I turn off!
bilgi42 4 hours ago [-]
If it's not fully supported and has major roadbumps, which it has, it is not supported. I don't know why companies take linux users as fools that'll accept anything thrown at them. Until lenovo can get their shit together and make a respectable laptop with 12h+ battery life, good build quality and a decent enough screen even on the worst configs, im not getting it
teo_zero 8 hours ago [-]
> the current Linux Kernel 6.15 already supports many commercial laptops:
Lenovo Yoga 7x,
Lenovo ThinkPad T14s Gen 6,
Dell XPS 13,
Asus Vivobook S15,
HP Omnibook x14,
Microsoft Surface 13/15
Has anybody had any first-hand experience with Linux on such laptops?
E39M5S62 5 hours ago [-]
I run Linux on a Thinkpad T13s, with the previous generation of Snapdragon CPUs. It runs great - quick, excellent battery life and very stable. Installation is a bit obnoxious, but nothing a modestly seasoned Linux veteran can't handle.
MarcusE1W 5 hours ago [-]
Completely agree with this. Ubuntu installs from the standard ARM installer on the X13s and openSuse Tumbleweed needs a litte help at the start but then runs great.
It looks like the Snapdragon X gets quite a lot of support now and end of the year or earlier next year it should be quite useable for most.
When the Snapdragon X laptops came out they where all over 1000$ and I completely understand that the number of Linux kernel enthusiasts to set things up would initially be limited.
Used prices come down now and that will also help.
kcb 4 hours ago [-]
I have one of those too. Found a nice 32gb spec one on eBay for a good price. Last I tried Ubuntu the main issues were the speakers were very quiet and usb-c display out didn't work.
diabllicseagull 3 hours ago [-]
did you mean Thinkpad x13s?
intothemild 7 hours ago [-]
As someone with a Yoga 7x .. I'm still waiting. It's not fully supported.
The issue is drivers for peripherals and wifi.
I think the GPU is now supported.
It's been a long wait, mostly due to Qualcomm as I understand.
TechDebtDevin 3 hours ago [-]
You can however, put Ubunutu no problem on the Ryzen versions.
In my case the biggest drawback is not being able to use an external screen via HDMI and the sound support (although you can workaround that with BT).
Let's not talk about widevine, I managed to eventually get it to work but it was very painful.
If we get full audio support and solve some of the widevine issues, this can easily become a daily driver for when I'm traveling or giving presentations.
arend321 3 hours ago [-]
I'm waiting for Android Virtualization Framework to run a full Linux distro on my smartphone with portable monitor (glasses). Already using Termux but AVF is hopefully much more performant. Maybe the Samsung S26 Ultra will have full support. I might ditch my miniPC if this works out.
flyinghamster 2 hours ago [-]
I've been playing with it[0] - it still has a few rough edges. It's rather slow to start up compared to firing up a VM in virt-manager, and when you shut it down you must wait for it to finish shutting down before trying to restart it.
Woe to you if Debian pushes a systemd update. It took repeated incantations with apt to get that update to take, because updating systemd would crash the VM Every. Damn. Time.
[0] The current console-only incarnation.
boomskats 3 hours ago [-]
I'm waiting for one of the headset vendors to support IMU-based HID mouse cursor control in hardware, with the same end goal in mind. In the meantime I'm stuck on amd64 with my little libinput driver[0].
I find it extremely comfortable. Considerably moreso than with my desk and monitor setup. I'm long sighted and the projection distance means I don't need glasses to see, and they don't get overly hot (nothing compared to a VR headset). Most significantly though, I can change the position of my head whenever I want without changing what I'm looking at, which makes a difference for my neck comfort, posture, etc.
To answer your question directly, I've done multiple 2-3 hour sessions at a time without taking the glasses off and have done 10+ hour days in them when away from home. At home I typically tend to use them for a couple of hours in the afternoons when I'm tired and more willing to sacrifice screen real estate for comfort.
The detail isn't the same and you have to plan your screen layout a bit (i.e. looking at code near the edges of the screen is annoying). But I think they're the future - a much bigger deal than VR or AR.
fsflover 3 hours ago [-]
Full Linux distro already works fine on my Librem 5, without unnecessary, costly virtualization.
arend321 3 hours ago [-]
It's a very interesting project, but I don't think I'm ready to let go of all my Android apps.
seba_dos1 2 hours ago [-]
On those rare occasions that I need to launch an Android app (such as my banking app), I run it in Waydroid.
djrj477dhsnv 53 minutes ago [-]
That won't work with apps that require Play Store Integrity, right?
diabllicseagull 3 hours ago [-]
Last I checked power management didn't work so they would run hot and burn through your battery. So unless there is full software support for hardware that makes laptops a portable computer, it's just not a practical solution for me.
Tho, I really want this to happen. As far as I've tested on Volterra (ms dev kit 2023), linux has a lot going right for it. there is a ton of ARM64 packages, and drivers just work (e.g. I had to wait so long for Wacom to release WoA drivers while it worked out the box with ARM64 linux builds). the potential is there and it's great.
On a last note, not being able to ship necessary firmware and relying on a WoA boot drive still sucks.
jama211 3 hours ago [-]
Poor power management has always been the last bastion keeping me from using Linux in certain machines. My desktop won’t sleep or wake up at all (or it will wake but show a grey screen and glitch out) on any distro I’ve tried. Every time I use it on a laptop the battery life is terrible. Makes me sad.
TheJCDenton 8 hours ago [-]
A little more context : in june 2024 at Computex, Tuxedo announced a possible christmas 2024 release [1]. A Qualcomm/Tuxedo collaboration was expected but did not materialize [2].
It's not precisely a laptop, but I have an augmented reality cyberdeck using XReal AR glasses running into a battery powered Raspberry Pi 5 that I built, which runs pretty well. I feel like the Pis have long been a canary in the coalmine for Linux and ARM (first ARMHF and now ARM64) support.
lll-o-lll 6 hours ago [-]
That sounds… awesome! I want one; links to a part list or anything?
_0ffh 4 hours ago [-]
It's easy to find the company (https://www.xreal.com/us/air/) but they sell different models, and I'd be interested in gp's model and user experience.
mg 1 hours ago [-]
Will this enable plain Debian on tablets like the the Microsoft Surface?
That would be awesome!
OptionX 6 hours ago [-]
Any word on a compibily layer project for x86/64 like Rosetta? Seems like an important thing to have imo.
The article mentions an emulator, but it seemed to be for running games.
I also heard MS had something similar in their arm dev kit, but haven't looked much into it.
OsrsNeedsf2P 3 minutes ago [-]
There's lots of responses but they miss the point. Rosetta let you run x86/64 apps without even knowing they were x86/64. Back when I ran Asahi, I searched far and wide, but Linux doesn't support that level of transparent integration. You always had to fuddle with the launch params.
goosedragons 6 hours ago [-]
It's not just for games. FEX-EMU is used here alongside Wine/Proton to run games but it'll also run the x64 version of other things. There's other layers like Box64 that do the same thing. For Linux, a lot of the software traditionally found in repos already has an ARM version and it's not as necessary. On Windows on ARM sometimes the only way to get an ARM native version is to run the Linux version under WSL.
Windows on ARM has allowed running x86 code from launch with Windows 10 and x64 code since Windows 11.
ThatPlayer 6 hours ago [-]
There is Box86/box64/box32. A bit confusing but it's box86 for x86 > ARM32. Box64 for x86_64 > ARM64. And Box32 for x86 > ARM64.
I think they mention games because a lot of other software for Linux is generally open source. So a lot of times it's pretty easy to get an ARM build.
It also does a neat performance trick where it intercepts library calls and redirects them to native versions of the same library.
Do the Snapdragons implement TSO/Total Store Order like the Apple chips to allow Rosetta 2 like x86 compatibility?
goosedragons 5 hours ago [-]
No. But what x86/x64 support that is available on Windows/Linux isn't as slow as you might think.
0x000xca0xfe 4 hours ago [-]
Do you have any data or reviews to link for that?
I'd really like to replace my old Thinkpad with a long-running, lightweight Linux laptop that can also do some gaming on the side (think Witcher 3 on good settings) but Snapdragon has not lived up to the hype AFAIK.
But big thumbs up to all the Linux devs that are working on improving the situation!
ZiiS 7 hours ago [-]
Been daily driving an M1 for two years at this point; no complaints.
aaviator42 7 hours ago [-]
With a Linux distro on it?
ZiiS 5 hours ago [-]
Yes, with Asahi (Now a Fedora was Arch initially). Think the fingerprint reader still didn't work but not really tried. Also only one external monitor (or DisplayLink) but the screen, sound, battery life, performace all best any x86 I have used.
Does Linux arm64 run Windows x86 applications in Wine? I mean, I'd be surprised if it did, but I need that. Otherwise an arm64 Linux laptop is super tempting.
ekianjo 3 hours ago [-]
Yes, with Box86 and Box64 along with Wine.
politelemon 8 hours ago [-]
Looking forward to this, thanks.
mehdibl 5 hours ago [-]
This sound nice but I don't like the incompatibility with x86. Docker and many other things.
Yeah we need some trade off's. But for dev's & a lot of ops stuff I enjoy more x86 as it's de facto standard.
But tons of them also don't. And for those that don't, there are usually alternatives available, but they are just that tiny bit different. So while Docker works, there is extra effort needed to use it.
seba_dos1 2 hours ago [-]
You can always use amd64 images with qemu-user if necessary.
tom89999 6 hours ago [-]
I am fed up with the linux world. I run Ubuntu on a randomly selected Thinkpad, everything works, outta the box.
Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu doing the exact workload?
I cant code faster, cant talk faster with people and being productive 8hrs strait is just a lie.
Since almost 10years i read about pre-installed devices, but i dont see them anywhere.
Most companies dont have business linux apps and they wont be available, an armada of developers is busy bringing the light of the webcam functioning.
Why not specialize in something else like software the entire world runs on like SAP or whatever?
Its nice to spend a rainy day to compile your kernel...but the outcome?
irusensei 6 hours ago [-]
Nobody is telling you to buy a new laptop. Same goes for software. If it's not for you then don't use it. It's all about choice. And the entire Linux ecosystem is not a single entity to "specialize on SAP or whatever". I suspect a large portion of SAP systems already run Linux anyway.
bee_rider 4 hours ago [-]
This sort of device is not really “the Linux world,” it is a company trying to provide Linux to people outside it; people who need pre-installs.
It is fine, and good of them to try, but if you don’t need it, you don’t need it.
homebrewer 6 hours ago [-]
Why not switch to Windows then? You'll of course have to chuck that perfectly finely working laptop when Windows 12 declares it obsolete, but such is life there.
efdee 1 hours ago [-]
I think you're confusing Microsoft and Apple. :-)
resonious 6 hours ago [-]
> Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu doing the exact workload?
Long battery is pretty nice. And you don't have to be productive for 8 hours straight to feel the niceness.
jamesnorden 4 hours ago [-]
You don't "have to" do anything, you can stay with the setup you're using right now just fine, I don't get the point of this post, you're fighting ghosts.
constantcrying 2 hours ago [-]
>Why should i buy a new laptop because it holds another cpu doing the exact workload?
Do you think that you are the center of the world and no product deserves to exist unless you have an immediate use for it?
tom89999 1 hours ago [-]
I was pushing this into the marketing perspective.
You are told what to buy...
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application. It's so bad, volunteers created an alternative. Even they are getting tired of Tuxedo though [2]
The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200€+ to repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are available and no instructions.
I hope they improve, but for now I'm disillusioned and would not buy it again.
[1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/TUXEDO-Drivers-Taint-Patches
[2] https://aaronerhardt.github.io/blog/posts/tuxedo_rs_update/
The entire software stack of TUXEDO is tightly integrated, instead of working on a generic solution.
That sounds like the same situation with smartphones, which are nearly all ARM but every SoC or variation of one is different enough that the software is customised for each one.
If you want to change some settings oft the device, you need to use their terrible Electron application.
WTF. I thought Android being Java was already going too far, but they seem to have gone to a whole new level of insanity.
That's not what I would describe as "resolving a license compatibility issue"
What you think would be the alternative in Europe ?
I've replaced it with the new framework 13 inch, which so far works well, but I've only had it for 4-5 months. ( well, but not perfect, because the new AMD AI CPU has issues with suspend on linux)
Oh? I'd seriously considered buying the 13 w/this AMD CPU and I guess I naively thought it would be ideal. What sort of problems with suspend are you seeing?
Upgraded to 6.15 and sleep seems to work well now.
I use NixOS
The only solution is to reboot/shutdown, but it takes a long time and there are some scary fs checks running. Luckily no lost data so far. Currently I'm just shutting down the machine every time because it the boot times are quite fast.
Otherwise at this point I believe the Framework laptops have pretty solid Linux support and is a good option if you're ok w/ so-so battery life.
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/yjuahx/star_...
That is unfortunate. I hoped they were more like System76.
Besides that some European countries have required for decades that new houses/apartment have central residual-current circuit breakers for the whole house (unlike the US where as far as I understand they are only required in certain areas and are often in the socket and not centralized).
They cannot.
>The device is also not repairable at all. I had an issue with my screen and they gave me a quote of ~200€+ to repair it. I'm sure I could fix it myself for a lot less, but no parts are available and no instructions.
It's like when people work on their car, they do it at highway speed, using a nacelle precariously balanced under the car, with the front wheels propped up on dollies for access.
And exactly the same experience with OEM vendors that were supposed to be Linux friendly, on my case the whole netbooks effort, where graphics, video decoding and wlan never worked as well on Windows, even though they were supposed to.
Dell XPS also had their issues for something that was supposed to be Canonical certified as running GNU/Linux properly.
It seems Android, ChromeOS and WebOS are the only ones where OEMs actually care to make it work properly, naturally the cloud and IoT vendors with their custom distros as well.
And I do not miss at all the Microsoft bullsh*t on tracking and advertising. Or the general sluggishness of Windows.
Early this year I bought a ThinkPad T14 Gen 5 AMD. In contrast to when I had a T14 Gen 1 AMD early 2020s, everything just works. All the hardware works, suspend/resume works, all the hardware comes up after a resume, etc.
Lately I have been using my ThinkPad much more than my MacBook Pro. NixOS is a superpower to me and having NixOS on a laptop is living the dream.
You were here for the really hard stuff, and missed the beginning of the good times, I think. Unlucky! Oh well. Welcome back!
I have also used headless Linux machines throughout my Mac vacation :).
With regards to the hard stuff. 1994-2007 was from my 12th to my 25th, basically overlapping with when I was a high school/university student. So, plenty of time and not enough money for a Mac or some commercial UNIX system. That period was also super exciting, especially up till the dotcom crash a lot of people thought that Linux was going to take over the desktop (anyone remember Corel Linux and even WordPerfect on Linux?). Linux did take over, but in different ways than we imagined, the server was kinda expected after the mid-nineties, but Android not.
Can you expand on this? Just curious what is the main value-add you are getting from NixOS in particular?
- Great modules for programs/services in NixOS and home manager. So I typically do not have to figure out what configuration format something uses. Most common options are exposed as module options and for options that are not exposed, it's often possible to write the configuration in Nix (or worst case a string that gets added to the configuration). I can access the documentation of all modules with a simple _man configuration.nix_ or `man home-configuration.nix`.
- I can override arbitrary packages with custom build options, etc. I don't have to maintain separate .spec/rules files or anything. I can just put a somePackage.override/overrideAttrs somewhere in my system configuration and the package customizations are there with my system configuration and always get built with the system.
- Packaging something to hook it up in my system is low-effort. nixpkgs is the largest distribution package set (according to repology). But sometimes something is missing or I want to add some of my own projects as packages, unless it's some insanely bad proprietary application, I can do it in a few minutes.
- Atomic updates/rollbacks.
- Ad-hoc or project-specific development shells (though that is more Nix than NixOS).
I know that the learning curve can be steep, but once you really get Nix and NixOS, it's kinda like being the master of the universe, erm, I mean your systems.
I might try it again. Last time I really did not like that any minute config change would take 15s to apply.
But the biggest issue for me, is that right now I have a good enough solution, that allows for config file update from applications. I have a small git repo, with one shell script, that symlinks config files, and even generates a few. And so backing up the latest config changes from KDE, freecad, etc, is a git add & commit away. I have another shell script to setup the base Ubuntu the way I want. And my data is replicated via syncthing.
They also seem to really care about supporting Linux. E.g. WWAN modems need proprietrary unlock procedures these days thanks to the FCC [1]. Most vendors would shrug and say 'sorry, we only support Windows', Lenovo has a repo with Linux support for all the modems that ThinkPads support (you can only use supported modems, because the FCC apparently only certifies laptop/modem combinations, not individual modems):
https://github.com/lenovo/lenovo-wwan-unlock
[1] https://modemmanager.org/docs/modemmanager/fcc-unlock/
Inb4: I have used Linux exclusively from 2019 to 2024. It wasn't that bad but it wasn't flawless. At least once per month I met some issue that took few hours to solve. Currently on Win11, zero problems (yes, I am using pirated LTSC IoT version, how did you know?)
As everyone knows, Windows has its own fair share of issues. The first is that it is not a Unix :).
A aarch64 Ubuntu vm inside MacOS runs faster and lasts more time than a booted up Ubuntu on arm in these devices. This is how far behind these things are.
and what bums me the most is that it's all about software. The hardware is great, but software on Snapdragon is taking a lot of time to catch up and it screams M$ lobby to me
Has anybody had any first-hand experience with Linux on such laptops?
It looks like the Snapdragon X gets quite a lot of support now and end of the year or earlier next year it should be quite useable for most.
When the Snapdragon X laptops came out they where all over 1000$ and I completely understand that the number of Linux kernel enthusiasts to set things up would initially be limited.
Used prices come down now and that will also help.
The issue is drivers for peripherals and wifi.
I think the GPU is now supported.
It's been a long wait, mostly due to Qualcomm as I understand.
https://github.com/jrandiny/yoga-slim7-ubuntu
In my case the biggest drawback is not being able to use an external screen via HDMI and the sound support (although you can workaround that with BT). Let's not talk about widevine, I managed to eventually get it to work but it was very painful.
If we get full audio support and solve some of the widevine issues, this can easily become a daily driver for when I'm traveling or giving presentations.
Woe to you if Debian pushes a systemd update. It took repeated incantations with apt to get that update to take, because updating systemd would crash the VM Every. Damn. Time.
[0] The current console-only incarnation.
[0]: https://github.com/boomskats/woahland
To answer your question directly, I've done multiple 2-3 hour sessions at a time without taking the glasses off and have done 10+ hour days in them when away from home. At home I typically tend to use them for a couple of hours in the afternoons when I'm tired and more willing to sacrifice screen real estate for comfort.
The detail isn't the same and you have to plan your screen layout a bit (i.e. looking at code near the edges of the screen is annoying). But I think they're the future - a much bigger deal than VR or AR.
Tho, I really want this to happen. As far as I've tested on Volterra (ms dev kit 2023), linux has a lot going right for it. there is a ton of ARM64 packages, and drivers just work (e.g. I had to wait so long for Wacom to release WoA drivers while it worked out the box with ARM64 linux builds). the potential is there and it's great.
On a last note, not being able to ship necessary firmware and relying on a WoA boot drive still sucks.
[1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-on-ARM-is-coming.t... [2] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/How-is-TUXEDOCOes-ARM-Not...
That would be awesome!
The article mentions an emulator, but it seemed to be for running games.
I also heard MS had something similar in their arm dev kit, but haven't looked much into it.
Windows on ARM has allowed running x86 code from launch with Windows 10 and x64 code since Windows 11.
I think they mention games because a lot of other software for Linux is generally open source. So a lot of times it's pretty easy to get an ARM build.
It also does a neat performance trick where it intercepts library calls and redirects them to native versions of the same library.
http://github.com/ptitSeb/box64
I'd really like to replace my old Thinkpad with a long-running, lightweight Linux laptop that can also do some gaming on the side (think Witcher 3 on good settings) but Snapdragon has not lived up to the hype AFAIK.
But big thumbs up to all the Linux devs that are working on improving the situation!
With applications.
And working webcam light and audio.
Yeah we need some trade off's. But for dev's & a lot of ops stuff I enjoy more x86 as it's de facto standard.
It is fine, and good of them to try, but if you don’t need it, you don’t need it.
Long battery is pretty nice. And you don't have to be productive for 8 hours straight to feel the niceness.
Do you think that you are the center of the world and no product deserves to exist unless you have an immediate use for it?